Craftworld Eldar and Ynnari go to a Tournament!

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  • Sean Morgan

    Solitaire in a Ynnari detachment I can confirm is pretty brutal. Popping a Word of the Phoenix onto him on the turn he Blitzes is absolutely brutal, it essentially lets you assassinate any character on the field you care about (and can take down most basic infantry squads as well.)

    There’s definitely some interesting concepts going on there, although I’m not sure about how all of the pieces fit together. I’m surprised you don’t like Farseers more- only having two powers is sad, to be sure, and WC7 on them is very harsh indeed, but I typically only feel like there is one “must-have” power each turn (Doom), with the others being add-ons.

    If you haven’t already, give Hemlocks a whirl. They’re a nightmare for most players to deal with, as the lack of degradation and -2 to hit combined make them incredibly resilient. I also find I’d rather have my Dark Reapers in an Alaitoc detachment to get that -1 to hit, though I suppose you could fake that durability by using Fire and Fade to move the big unit of them back behind cover each time. Won’t stop Renegades or IG from hammering you with artillery, though.

    I need to give Shining Spears some more time, I know they’re vastly better now but I didn’t have any built yet, so I hadn’t been practicing with them. But Quicken shenanigans are definitely where it’s at.

    Banshees I want to like but I feel like they’re gonna be tricky. They don’t get the +3″ to charge unless they actually advance, which makes bringing them down from a Webway Strike a lot less attractive. I might try dropping a unit of Shadow Spectres for 2×5 of them, just to see how they work.

    • Yeah I’ve thought about the hemlocks before, but they’re a lot of points for a singular unit that easily blows up. I played against them in my game two and I was able to take care of both of them turn one.

      Shining spears are amazing and I agree with the Banshees. They probably should have gone into the “needs more time to play” as the Hawks did. As I liked them, but I wasn’t impressed with them that much.

      As to the Farseers, I just dislike how they aren’t guaranteed to cast stuff now that everything is a 7. They’re some of the best psykers in the game lore wise, but sure don’t seem like it on the table like in previous editions. Perhaps my tune will change the more I play with him, but now I don’t like how many points I’m paying for “maybe be able to successfully cast doom” character.

      • Sean Morgan

        I dunno, I always find my Farseers doing amazing work. Doom is hands-down one of the strongest powers in the game and in combination with Rangers and other stuff it lets you absolutely shred any one unit of your choice, even big guys like Mortarion or a Knight. Moreover, the Farseer unlocks the Forewarned stratagem, which _completely_ shuts down Alpha Legion shenanigans and can singlehandedly win the mirror match as well as being a huge help against reserve lists like the Raptors one you lost to. Between the innate reroll and a command point you should usually be able to get off at least one power pretty easily each turn.

        Hemlocks really aren’t that easy to kill, what with -2 to hit and Spirit Stones on top of that. Certainly it’s doable if you focus firepower, but they’re easily tougher than any other two units in the list combined.

        I’m playing around with similar ideas overall, but I haven’t found a way to mix in Ynnari that I’m happy with (as I’m running a brigade.)

        • slucidi

          Just a note– Forewarned doesn’t do a thing against Alpha Legion. Forward Operatives aren’t entering as reinforcements, so you don’t get to shoot them. Still a great stratagem though.

          • Sean Morgan

            I mean, they certainly aren’t deploying onto the table normally, so I’m not sure what you would call it other than reinforcements. They count towards your “maximum 50% limit,” so I would presume that they follow the same rules for other reinforcements and trigger Forewarned in the same way.

          • slucidi

            They’re deployed onto the table before the first turn begins, which is a pretty major distinction from reinforcements. Reinforcements are defined in the rulebook on p177. as units that setup on the battlefield mid turn during a phase, which is not what happens with Forward Operatives (since they arrive before any turns have begun). I can sort of see where you are coming from, but I don’t think Forewarned applies here.

          • Sean Morgan

            It’s arguable I suppose, but as a counterpoint they are _not_ set up during the normal deployment phase, but rather during the first battle round- so even though they are not set up during either player’s turn, they are still being set up once the game has already begun.

          • Venkarel

            The rule says, “instead of being set up on the battlefield during Deployment, many units have the ability to… in order to arrive on the battlefield mid-game as reinforements.” Infiltrate type powers meets these requirements.

        • Venkarel

          This is one for a FAQ as there are a whole host of things that work after the game has begun and before the first turn, infiltrate, the stratagem Phantasm, etc. RAW Forewarned should work against these, as yes they are reinforcements, and it is technically mid-game in the since it is after the game has begun and before it ended. I also wonder if you could use it more than once, as your are not in a phase. but the game has begun… so I do not know. Even if it does not work in the above situation, it is a great power.

          • Sean Morgan

            You definitely can use it more than once, just as the enemy player can use the “infiltrate a dude” strat more than once.

            But yeah, Forewarned and Doom alone are enough to make me take a Farseer. Anything else they do is just gravy.

          • Venkarel

            The infiltrate a dude strat. happens during deployment which is before the game begins so it is clear it can be used more than once. Forewarning (in this case) is used after the game begins put not in a phase so a weird grey area

  • naramyth

    Tell me more about the Lias list.

    • William Walsh

      I played the Lias list.. its pretty much Lias Issodon, a lieutenant with a jump pack, 3 devastator squads, 4 storm talons, scouts + other stuff for utility.

      Play The Weather Girls, shoot stuff up… it’s really an anti-meta list more than anything.

      • naramyth

        Devs and scouts make sense. I’ve been looking to take advantage of him but it’s hard to find things that are worth while.

  • Brandon Anderson

    Doesnt a detatchment have to have the same craftworld? how is the vanguard saim-hann and alaitoc?

    • Page 78 of the Eldar Codex explains how on units work. But essentially when you pick a unit you pick what it comes from.

      Stratagems are unlocked via a pure detachment. I have 2 such detachments, so those detachments will unlock the stratagems and they will have the Craftworld Attribute.

      Ynarri rule says I gain Ynarri faction keyword but the Eldar codex says I don’t get to unlock the craftworld benefits and have obsec in my Ynarri detachment. I’ve already unlocked stratagems and the Stratagems either call out a unit type or . Since the Ynarri guys still have a trait they’re legal targets of the Stratagems.

      • deris87

        You completely missed page 116: “If your army is Battle-forged, all units in a Craftworlds Detachment gain a Craftworld Attribute, **so long as every unit in that Detachment is from the same craftworld.**”

        • I never said the Ynarri detachment got craftworld bonuses. They just get to benefit from the Stratagems of the specific craftworlds.

          And my other two detachments are pure Alaitoc, so they do get the bonuses.

          • fullaflash

            I agree that there it appears there is a distinction between craftworld ‘attribute’ and craftworld ‘keyword’ – I would just worry that if your opponent in a tournment disagrees and puts it to a TO the ruling might go against you as it does sound a bit ‘gamey’ – love to know if this has worked for you in a tournament though!

          • If the TO decides to change rules in the middle of the game you can’t really do anything about that. But RAW this is how it works.

          • Venkarel

            There is no such restrictions on the stratagems except in the rules text for each specific stratagem. All you need is a Craftworld detachment to unlock them per the rules text at the top on page 118. The rules on page 116 are very specific on what a Craftworld detachment is and the author is fulfilling these. Furthermore pg 116 is specific that a Ynnari detachment only loses the (two) abilities listed below, which are the path of war (although we gain something similar through the Objective Secured rule) and Craftworld attributes.

    • deris87

      He appears to technically be correct per pg. 78 that you can pick a unit’s craftworld on an individual basis, he just completely missed the rules that actually govern Craftworld Attributes on pg. 116. So in this list he’d have access to the stratagems (because he has Craftworlds Detachments), but none of those Detachments would benefit from a Craftworld Attribute.

  • Venkarel

    Starhawk missles stratagem seems wonderful and is definitely a reason to take an Aeldari Missile Launcher or two (or three) on dark reaper exarchs. With soulburst that is two smites with a 48″ range that hit on 2+ re-rolling 1’s per turn per unit. With soulbursting in the psychic and fight phase you technically could do three. All for 1 CP per use.
    Fire and fade should allow you seven extra inches on an subsequent charge during your turn. WIth the FAQ saying souldburst happens after the unit is done shooting, you could, shoot kill a unit triggering souldburst, and then use fire and fade to move through the eradicated units position to soulburst charge a unit behind. As the “active” player you get to choose how to resolve the two abilities.
    Seer Council strat. would help with the farseer casting but is ti worth taking a warlock?
    I also think the Saim-Hann strat is golden for 1CP you get +6 to charge (from the advance) and reroll 1’s in the following fight. Shining Spears are well shiny.

    • Sean Morgan

      Hmm, that’s a thought- I hadn’t really considered the possibility for Starhawks off Reapers. More ways to get mortal wounds is always good. But since you’re limited to one of a strat per turn, you’re never gonna get more than the basic d3 off of it.

      • Venkarel

        Once per phase, not turn.

    • fullaflash

      Hey can you explain this a bit more, I don’t understand how the soulburst mechanics get around the ‘may not charge’ restriction on fire and fade. Not saying your wrong, I just genuinely dont get it..

      The FAQ changed souldburst to happen after the unit is done shooting, so you could shoot kill a unit triggering souldburst, and then use fire and fade to move through the eradicated units position to soulburst charge a unit behind. As the “active” player you get to choose how to resolve the two abilities.

      • Venkarel

        For me it is unclear, the soulburst charge gets around every other “you cannot charge” restriction from movement. It might not work, as we specifically do not have permission to ignore the Fire and Fade restriction. On the other hand, we do have specific permission to immediately charge as if it was the charge phase (even if the unit has charged advanced or fell back) as one of the actions we can pick after a unit is killed and triggers strength from death.
        As for the timing part GW does not have a stack or even timing rules for actions except that the player who’s turn it is gets to resolve them in the order of their choosing. Fire and fade say you can move the unit after it has shot in the shooting phase but cannot charge. Strength from death says after you destroy a unit if within 7″ and have not soulbursted this turn, you can soulburst. The FAQ says, “…the Soulburst action is resolved after the unit has completely resolved its current action, e.g. after it has completed all of its shooting attacks or after it has finished fighting, including making any consolidation moves.” If it is my turn in the shooting phase, I can use Fire and Fade, as I meet all the permissions for use, immediately after I finish shooting and then resolve the soulburst as I get to pick the order of actions.
        Again, RAW I think this works but I do not think it is how GW intended it to work, so it might not work the way I think…

  • fullaflash

    Just thought i’d put this comment here also…

    Hey Phil and Matt thanks for the great analysis, its been a bit thin on the ground with the eldar codex..

    I’d like to say at this stage that I disagree with you on alaitoc windriders. I’m running a max squad of 9 with scatter lasers with a bike warlock for conceal and using cloudstrike to keep them off the table until my first shooting phase. With a successful guide (can be iffy I know) you throw out 27 hits, 22.5 wounds against GEQ of which 15 die assuming a 5+ save. That’s the better part of two infantry squads dead per turn and of course it gets better the following turn when they hit on 3s.

    To keep them alive vs a BS 4+ opponent who wants to focus them you can always pop lightning reflexes for a -3 to hit and essentially make them invulnerable.

    I agree they’re fragile but I think stratagems and Alaitoc give you a reliable way to keep them alive while dishing out huge amounts of dakka. That squad comes in at 252 points.

  • fullaflash

    Do you not think Dire Avengers are way better than rangers? I have played two games with each and the avengers have been substantially better both times.

    If you run min squads with an exarch and twin catapults they cost 10.6 points each (as the exarch essentially counts as two dudes). They are super mobile (average of 10.5″ move per turn) and they overwatch on a 5+.

    I just feel that rangers are taking you out of the highly mobile, lots of dakka, eldar game plan..

    Totally agree on shadow spectres, although I run them in min units of 3 to take advantage of extra ablative wounds from the free exarch. Its also then easier to suicide one in to take advantage of the moral debuff/flame dudes. Also capping multiple objectives. I think you do want to run them with an autarch however.

    • Rangers should theoretically live longer than dire avengers. +2 to cover and a natural -1 to hit (-2 with alaitoc) means they’ll stay on objectives longer and with the new ITC missions that’s what you want since everything is turn by turn on objectives. It also doesn’t hurt that they can take out those pesky buff characters. I didn’t really run into any of them at the tornament so it wasn’t mentioned in the article but should be considered.